Margaret Cho: Comedy, Activism, and the Summer of 2020

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Summary

The chapter opens with Apatow and Cho reminiscing about their early stand-up days. Apatow recalls performing on The Half Hour Comedy Hour while living with Adam Sandler in the Valley, and he jokes about his Long Island accent and a pointless set. He traces his start to Long Island clubs—Chuckles in Mineola, Governor’s in Levittown, and the East Side Comedy Club in Huntington—where he washed dishes as a teenager just to be near comedy, then became a busboy to see the acts. He mentions that Rosie O’Donnell was starting out there and that a young Eddie Murphy would drop in.

Cho describes her own beginnings at the Holy City Zoo in San Francisco, where she lived across the street and could emcee or fill in whenever a slot opened. She paints a vivid picture of the neighborhood: Patton Oswalt, Blaine Capatch, and Brian Posehn shared an apartment a block away; Jeff Garlin and Robin Williams frequented the Toy Boat café; Ron Lynch, Alex Reid, Dana Gould, and Jim Earl all lived in a nearby house at different times. Apatow recalls visiting a similar crash pad in the Valley as an eighteen-year-old USC student, where he met Joel Hodgson and Rich Hall. He also hosted at the Improv, a star-studded and intimidating room with Ellen DeGeneres, Paula Poundstone, Jay Leno, Jerry Seinfeld, and Paul Reiser. He opened for Jim Carrey at Cobb’s when Carrey was just starting on In Living Color, and Cho was in the audience.

Both agree that the pre-success era was the best time for comedy—before family obligations and bitterness crept in. They discuss how talent and ambition don’t always align; some brilliant comics never achieve fame, while others master the business side. Cho names Andy Dick as a perennial favorite, and Apatow brings up the complications of knowing someone who has been in trouble, especially in the MeToo era. Cho notes that smartphones have created constant accountability, which is safer, and that vulnerability is now seen as a strength—a shift from the hypermasculine nineties. Apatow reflects on generational silence, contrasting his own upbringing with his kids’ openness about trauma. Cho references Ordinary People as a symbol of that emotional brittleness.

The conversation turns to Cho’s family. Her father, a comedy and movie fan, let her watch adult films like Jaws, A Clockwork Orange, and Mel Brooks comedies. She was obsessed with SCTV and SNL, and watching Joan Rivers host changed her life. Andy Kaufman and Steve Martin also inspired her. She started doing comedy naturally and never stopped. Apatow asks about her sitcom All-American Girl. Cho says she’s glad she went through it and would try again, loving the multi-cam tradition and the live energy of a Norman Lear–style show. She admires Taxi for blending film aesthetics with multi-cam and for its melancholy, which she connects to the immigrant story.

They discuss her career evolution. Cho says she hit a high point around 2000 and was great in 2003, with ups and downs since. She hasn’t performed since March 2020 due to COVID, which unsettles her because she needs the performance energy. Apatow admits he didn’t do stand-up for twenty-two years and only returned in 2014, realizing that live interaction is the fun part of comedy.

Cho shares what fans tell her: that she was the first person who looked like them talking about experiences they understood, and that she inspired other Asian American comedians. Apatow admits he didn’t think much about representation until working with Lena Dunham and Kumail Nanjiani on The Big Sick, which was hard to finance because studios doubted its mass appeal. Cho explains that invisibility is hard to quantify as discrimination because it’s not even there. She insists that story quality matters more than race, gender, or sexuality, and that audiences just want good movies. She calls her advocacy about inclusion and fairness, not politics, and notes that COVID-19 has caused a surge of racism toward Asian Americans.

The interview ends with Cho’s tattoos. Her parents owned a gay bookstore in the seventies, and the employees had full-body tattoos from Ed Hardy. She got her first large tattoos in her thirties and is now almost completely covered. She performed some of her first sets at the Rose and Pistol, a gay comedy club above the bookstore. Finally, they agree that comedy has become more sophisticated and grounded in truth, and that audiences are better judges of what’s funny.

Key Events

Apatow and Cho compare their early club origins: Long Island vs. San Francisco.
They recall the San Francisco comedy scene’s communal living and legendary figures.
Apatow describes opening for Jim Carrey at Cobb’s; Cho was in the audience.
They discuss the MeToo movement’s impact on accountability and vulnerability.
Cho credits her family’s permissive viewing habits and her father’s love of comedy films.
They revisit All-American Girl and the multi-cam sitcom tradition.
Cho reflects on her career arc and the importance of live performance energy.
They talk about representation, invisibility, and the financing struggles of The Big Sick.
Cho explains her tattoos’ origin in her parents’ gay bookstore and the Rose and Pistol club.
They conclude that comedy has evolved to be more sophisticated and truthful.

Character Development

Margaret Cho emerges as someone who has grown from a young comic in a vibrant but chaotic scene into a seasoned performer who values authenticity and connection. She is self-aware about her own limitations, admitting she doesn’t always know how to handle traumatic topics in interviews. She has also matured in her understanding of success, noting that talent and ambition don’t always align and that some of the funniest people never achieve fame. Her openness about her family—the gay bookstore, her father’s permissive movie choices, and her early exposure to adult comedy—shows how those experiences shaped her voice. She is also reflective about her legacy, calling the fact that other Asian American comedians look to her her greatest achievement.

Judd Apatow reveals his own evolution from a nervous young comic washing dishes to a filmmaker who has learned to appreciate live performance. He admits he didn’t think about representation until working with Lena Dunham and Kumail Nanjiani, showing a growing awareness of systemic issues. He also contrasts his generation’s silence about trauma with his kids’ openness, indicating a shift in his own perspective. His nostalgia for the early comedy scene and his admission that he missed stand-up for twenty-two years suggest a man who has reconnected with his roots.

Themes, Symbols, or Motifs

Accountability and vulnerability: The chapter contrasts the pre-smartphone era, where bad behavior often went unnoticed, with today’s constant accountability. Cho frames vulnerability as a new kind of strength, a direct counter to the hypermasculine nineties.
Invisibility and representation: Cho’s point that invisibility is hard to quantify as discrimination is a central motif. The difficulty of financing The Big Sick illustrates how studios underestimate stories about non-white protagonists.
Family influence: Cho’s parents’ gay bookstore and her father’s permissive movie choices are symbols of an unconventional upbringing that fostered her comedic voice. The bookstore also connects to her tattoos and her first performances at the Rose and Pistol.
The evolution of comedy: Both comics agree that comedy has become more sophisticated and grounded in truth. The shift from “stupid open mics” to a more thoughtful art form is a recurring theme.
Talent vs. ambition: Apatow and Cho discuss how some brilliant comics lack business acumen, while others succeed without being geniuses. This tension runs through their reflections on the comedy world.

Why This Chapter Matters

This chapter offers a rare, candid look at the comedy industry from two veterans who came up in different scenes but share a deep love for the craft. It provides historical context for the San Francisco and Long Island comedy circuits of the 1980s and 1990s, naming figures who shaped the alternative comedy movement. More importantly, it addresses systemic issues—MeToo accountability, racial invisibility, and the business barriers to diverse stories—through personal anecdotes rather than abstract theory. Cho’s reflections on being a trailblazer for Asian American representation and Apatow’s admission of his own blind spots make this a valuable conversation about how comedy and Hollywood have changed, and how far they still have to go.

Study Questions and Answers

1. How does the chapter illustrate the difference between talent and ambition in comedy?

Apatow and Cho discuss how some comics are geniuses but lack the ability to navigate the business side, while others succeed through ambition alone. Cho notes that some of the funniest people she knew never achieved the success she expected, and that’s fine. This distinction shows that success in comedy is not purely meritocratic.

2. What role does Cho’s family play in shaping her comedic voice?

Her father’s love of comedy films and his permissive attitude toward adult movies exposed her to Mel Brooks, Richard Pryor, and SNL at a young age. Her parents’ gay bookstore and the Rose and Pistol club above it gave her a unique environment where she performed some of her first sets. This unconventional upbringing fostered her openness and her later advocacy for inclusion.

3. Why does Cho say invisibility is harder to fight than overt discrimination?

She explains that when a problem is invisibility, it doesn’t even register as discrimination because it’s not present. This makes it difficult to feel or quantify, and thus harder to address. The chapter connects this to the financing struggles of The Big Sick, where studios doubted a story about a Pakistani American family would appeal to mass audiences.

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